Greatest Ever Discussions

Before I get into the title subject, Mike & Mike are on TV playing up the importance of the fact that the Giants stepped off the plane all wearing black suits. The Patriots upset the Rams in 2001 by choosing to be introduced by a team, but whoah, a whole week before the SuperBowl the Giants are dressing all in the same color (to be accurate a number of them had dark gray on). Game over man, put my money down on the Giants. Fortunately Golic wasn't quite as caught up in it as sports romantic Greeny.

Clark Judge at CBSportsline.com has one of the better "Is Brady the Best QB of All Time?" columns today, because he gets some good varied input from GM's, former players, and old cranky sportswriters, to weigh in with their opinions. I like it because the hyperbole is kept at a minimum, except where Judge adds in his own quips. So it's definitely worth a read, but it keeps reminding me of the hyperbole in the past years regarding the evil disrespectful Tom Brady.

Here is what columnists were saying:

February 2002: "The day of The Catch in January 1982, the day the San Francisco 49ers made it to their first Super Bowl, the day Joe Montana threw to Dwight Clark, Tom Brady was a toddler in the stands. And now, 20 years later, when the New England Patriots win their first Super Bowl, Tom Brady has in effect become the new Joe Montana. He got what he wanted."
Nutshell: Brady reminds people of Montana, because he's cool. He's not a top QB yet though

February 2004: "OK, that's it. I can't take it anymore," writes Rick Morrissey of the Chicago Tribune. "Tom Brady is not John Elway or Joe Montana. He's somewhere in the Phil Simms stratum, a very nice place to be but a place where you have to crane your neck to see the mountaintop. . . ."
Nutshell: Backlash time as people drool over Brady winning his 2nd SB MVP, and start making over-the-top "Brady vs Montana" comparisons. Brady vs Manning now a toss-up with the rings getting Brady an edge for writers, but players give Manning the edge for stats.

February: 2005: Sporting News rates Peyton Manning the 15th best QB of all time. Brady comes in at 19th.
Nutshell: Sporting News Magazine, already declared dead years before, publishes this list that no one ever sees because no one subscribes to the Sporting News and in 2005 they were charging for this kind of exclusive content. Since they were charging, I have no idea who is in the top 10 outside of the obvious candidates. Brady had just won his 3rd Superbowl with his greatest statistical performance, and he started getting a little separation on the Brady vs Manning debate because he was up 3 rings to none. Of course plenty of people still sided with Peyton because he just put up the greatest QB season of all time with 49 TD's and the best passer rating ever. So the points remained the same, but the play of both elevated them even higher.

February 2007: Vinnie Iyer on Brady and his ranking at SN's Greatest #19: "If you look at Brady's regular seasons, they are pretty good, but his three rings are what have him at 19th, or 21 spots ahead of another pretty good regular-season quarterback, Donovan McNabb. For that matter, I think Brady should be in the top dozen."
Nutshell: Manning wins his first Superbowl, almost completely squashing the angle that Brady proponents held up in the debate. No mentions of Brady as an all-timer this year because he isn't in the Superbowl. Brady, according to Vinnie Iyer, is in the top 12. Most people at this point have Brady and Manning both firmly in the top 6 or 7. Some old people bring up Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh, which then causes Manning/Brady to fall two places. Several people start projecting Manning as the best ever, which had been happening in smaller doses for the past three years.

January 2008: Mike Martz: ""Tom Brady will be at the pinnacle of all those who ever played," said former head coach Mike Martz, now the offensive coordinator in San Francisco."
Jerry McGee of the San Diego-Tribune: "I like (Brady) better than Unitas because Unitas couldn't throw the ball like Brady. And I like him over Montana because I think Brady has a better arm and cerebrally is Montana's equal."
Nutshell: There is no article mentioning a Brady vs Manning debate. When the Colts lost to the Chargers in the Divisional Round, it cost us a week of chest-beating grunts from Bob Kravitz and others. But it wouldn't have mattered. There is only one debate left raging right now...Is Brady the best QB of all time? Mike Martz is given to hyperbole and has always been a Brady fan, but I was shocked to see how many people are putting him in the debate. No one can agree on who to compare him with of course (Montana, Unitas, Graham, Marino, and Favre seem to be the most popular candidates, in that order). NFL Live today brought it up several times today. People who last year would have taken Manning over Brady (Merrill Hoge, Mike Golic, and Ron Jaworski for starters) are now on the fence whether to put him over Montana or just alongside him.

Of course, the difference between last year and this year is that Brady has trumped Manning for the best ever season by a QB, led his team to an 18-0 record (19-0 if you're a time traveller like the Boston Globe's book publishing department), and is on the verge of winning his 4th Superbowl. The stats defenders of Manning have lost some mojo in the same way Brady rings defenders lost some mojo in that debate in 2007.

Here is what I think:

It's a stupid question with no answer for obvious reasons. First, comparing eras is fine if you all agree on the rules. No one does and they make up them up as they go along to support their preconceived notions. Second, the free agency factor has become way overblown. While a team could stay together for a number of years in the 70's to build a dynasty, it also meant that they didn't have the opportunity to upgrade like the Patriots do now.

The real question is, what does it mean to be the best QB of all time?

How much do you weigh...
1. Win totals
2. Postseason win totals
3. Superbowl appearances
4. Superbowl wins
5. MVP Awards
6. SB MVP Awards
7. HOF receiver to throw to
8. HOF running back for defenses to gameplan for
9. Passing Yards
10. Passer Rating
11. Number of TD Passes
12. Number of Interceptions
13. Quality of Opponents
14. Pocket Passer vs Gunslinging gambler
15. Did you revolutionize the game?
16. Did you call your own plays?

The list can go on and on, and every one of these 16 arguments has been used to cast a shining light on one columnists favorite over another.

This is why it's a futile argument....for now.

If Brady wins Sunday, continues to perform as the #1 or #2 best QB for the next 5 years, and wins 1 or 2 more SB's (passing everyone on the QB list in that category), then the point will become moot. It will be similar to what happened between 1991, where Bird and Magic were in the discussion for best players ever in the NBA, then 4 or 5 years later Jordan ended the argument.

I love the debate and think about it if you're a Boston sports fan this way. If you are over 35, you got to see:

Bobby Orr (#2 player ever in NHL)
Larry Bird (#3 or #4 ever in NBA)
Roger Clemens/Pedro Martinez (regardless of roids, both in the top 5 ever)
Tom Brady (Top 5 or 6 now consensus, with real potential for #1 in 5 years)

What other city can say that they saw the 4 main sports played at their highest level?

No one, and it's just one of the 100 reasons the rest of the country hates us.